Curse

Mystic Memory · May 30, 2006, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Arcane Languor: increased duration to 1..8 seconds.

Wow...

Whats my new favorite elite? O yea!!! Arcane Echo + Arcane Languor FTW!!!

I hope it stays like this, and that the other casters wont complain about it

Siddious · May 30, 2006, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Yep it actually looks like a good elite now. It would make a nice combo with backfire.
Also don't forget it may only be 8duration at say 15fast-casting so don't get your hopes up.

robrobrob · May 30, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Mesmer1:
Arcane Echo
Echo
Arcane Mimicry

Mesmer2:
Arcane Echo
Arcane Langour
Arcane Mimicry

Not entirely sure on the plausability, but the idea of it sounds like a lot of fun. xD

edit: eer, just checked Mimicry's descrip. Says it copies "Elite Spell." I guess it won't copy an Echo then? Unless someone can confirm it copies target ally's Elite period. >_>

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 31, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Still trash imo; diversion is still better (which imo is trash)

Mystic Memory · May 31, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

diversion is still better (which imo is trash)

Diversion is trash? Thats the first time I heard that one. :/

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 31, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Long rant on my take on diversion but I can suppliment the lecture with
Blackout: 10 energy, skill, 1 second "cast" time, recharge 10
Disables for 7 seconds
Diversion: 10 energy, spell, 3 second cast time, recharge 10
Disables for 6 seconds

Now while I could stop here...I won't.
My main grudge against diversion is that it gives the opponent a choice while blackout does not. With diversion you see most people think that "If they use a skill they are severly punished and can't use it for a minute!" which although is true; is the wrong train of thought. It should be "Gee I hope they don't use a skill". You see with diversion you are hoping that you get a 6 second blackout, while with blackout you get a 7 second blackout. If they are put into a situation where they use a skill, it is often a situation where you would not have wanted them to use it: why? Because they know the situation and are willing to give up that skill for whatever reason they used it. If they are a monk it would be saving their or someone else's life, ele killing a warrior with an orb, warrior killing you, etc etc. If you had used blackout; they would not have been given this choice and you would be in a much better position than you are now: simply a skill disabled instead of a member killed (or alive if it was to prevent a spike).

Now if this alone wasn't a good enough of a reason; blackout kills warrior's adren as well, which as far as I can tell is just frosting on the cake.

Thats my take on diversion.

Now for this skill; its often worthless as the exhuastion caused from it insignificant and is regenerated and more than likely didn't hurt their energy to begin with. In fact it won't hurt their energy supply at all according to the energy exhaustion principal of that energy supply comes back the way you lost it to exhuastion (ie used or unused energy bar will come back used or unused) so "loss" of energy to this skill is impossible.

So the "pressure" of this skill is less that than diversion in that they can use a skill with even less of a blackout effect. This is a slap on the wrist compared to diversion, which is a pebble in the ocean compared to blackout.

Avarre · May 31, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

In a longer fight diversion is advantageous because with it being kept in play, the skills you take off are going to start to be very painful. Blackout is for spike, but diversion is better for pressure imo.

Langour however is amusing. It's not totally useless, but I still don't like it.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 31, 2006, 12:36 AM // 00:36

If you take off any skills at all that is; my main point was with blackout you don't give them that option.

If they take that option; you are going to hurt more then they will because you gave it to them.
-edit-
Unless they are completely stupid and cast something without thinking about the consequences of their action, or if they misjudge something etc. etc.
As always I dislike relying on the stupidity of my enemy so I think we could void this imo~

Sab · May 31, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Arcane Langour still seems pretty useless. Small amounts of exhaustion isn't going to stop a caster from functioning.

As for Diversion & Blackout, Diversion cripples in the long run - disabling a skill for almost a minute, while Blackout does short-term damage - disabling both your opponent's and your skillsets for a few seconds at a time.

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 31, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Agreed; especially when it is a threat and not actually a direct one.
In terms of threat
Blackout
Diversion
Wastrel's Worry =p
Arcane Langour

Exhaustion is not going to stop anyone from casting anything. Give mesmers crystal haze imo! (fine tone it down some...but not too much)

Diversion cannot disable anything for a minute unless the castee chooses so. If they are choosing to do so it is because they are willing to disable a skill for a minute; usally player advantage (killing one of yours, saving one of theirs)

I ask what is more long term damage: a skill or a player?

Yes BO does disable your bar for 5 seconds, but factor in the cast time of diversion to BO (3 seconds) and the shorter duration (6 to 7) and we have a 3 second difference between the two. Diversion gets the benefits of fast cast so we can assume it will cast in about 1.75 seconds or so, but the difference is still huge. BO has a 2 second~ edge on diversion in this way so the 5 second shutdown is less drastic when viewed in this mannor.

Avarre · May 31, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Diversion also has the advantage of range, the advantage of being boosted by MoR, the fact that anyone can see BO coming and kite it, that you can put diversion up while someone is getting hit and cripple healing, that you can use both to slow down 2 monks or casters or anything...

You're overlooking a lot of points by assuming diversion is just a 6s blackout. Even if it was, I would use it for the dual shutdown and the range ability...

Eaimirth Etaivella · May 31, 2006, 03:52 AM // 03:52

While diversion may cripple healing; BO shuts it down completely =p
Diversion does have range *sigh* if only BO had that on its side (some justification on why I love Power block =D)
Spell status is a mixed blessing; while MoR affects it it still does have a lengthy cast time and can be interrupt by a number of skills as it is easy to anticipate. It is also a hex; and thus can be removed unlike blackout.
I'm not saying diversion is a worthless skill; I'm just saying it is a city while blackout is the universe =p
But back on subject...arcane langour has...not much going for it. It is the small wad of gum on the bottom of some small little desk; annoying everyone but causing no significant difference at all.

Lady Lozza · May 31, 2006, 04:26 AM // 04:26

IMHO both Diversion and BO are pvp only skills, as far as using either of these skills to take down a monk I'd have to say from experience (as a monk) BO hurts more. I can function with one of my skills shutdown by Diversion (I shouldn't be stupid enough to let that happen, but there have been times when it has). To shutdown a decent monk you need to take out a bare minimum of 3 skills. Avarre, Diversion does indeed become a 6 second blackout when the monk in question refuses to cast during that time. The only time I've seen Diversion as a clear winner was when the other team was running a rainbow spike and their mesmer managed Diversion just as our infuse monk was using Infuse. Diversion is a pain but it certainly isn't a killer. BO on the other hand... Of course there are then the arguments about range etc, but this is all a little OT.

Back to Arcane Langour, I think that the skill has been improved. I would take another look at it, whereas before it went to my skill selection screen and was going to stay there for eternity. Langour does have a potential to REALLY hurt caster (as opposed to signet) monks. I run Mo/Me, I don't use ascetics and I GENERALLY have 0 engery problems, however that doesn't mean that I can afford to limit my energy pool with exhaustion. Assuming I get no hex removal, running around for 8 seconds not being able to cast AT ALL because to do so will create serious problems, is killer.

LightningHell · May 31, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Sometimes I bring both.

(Diversion and Blackout)

Themis · May 31, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25

IMO:
- Blackout is a 2 seconds shutdown skill, 'cause i don't consider my own skillbar's shutdown a benefit. So, if it is not part of a specific build, it's kinda useless. This is not the case of Diversion.
- Blackout is a skill TOO MUCH VISIBLE in a battlefield. When you cast it, the only players who are not consious you did cast it, are the blind ones !

Diversion is insidious.
- If someone considers that BO can be used against warriors (?!), this person should take a look at SV instead.
- Some think that Diversion gives a choice. In the heat of the battle, when you are not sure that you can wait 6 seconds (if you're a Monk, for instance), you don't ACTUALLY have a choice : you can only cast through. So, the only choice you have, is to choose the skill to be diverted (among your ready-to-cast skills...). But, because Diversion is spammable, this choice becomes more and more restricted over time.
- Diversion -properly casted, not just spammed in a hazardous way- can RUIN the opponents' team strategy. Team builds are often based on some specific skills : take out one, and it's all over. I will not enumerate the builds, i think that everybody has some in mind. Blackout, imo, has never ruined a team strategy. Diversion is much more strategic than BO.

Arcane Languor is a strategic skill : casted wisely, and combined with some other, AL is very-very interesting. I'm happy this skill is back on my line.

Avarre · May 31, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

- Diversion -properly casted, not just spammed in a hazardous way- can RUIN the opponents' team strategy. Team builds are often based on some specific skills : take out one, and it's all over. I will not enumerate the builds, i think that everybody has some in mind. Blackout, imo, has never ruined a team strategy. Diversion is much more strategic than BO.

This was my point. If you're, say, fighting a spike team, diversion is better than BO. If you BO one spiker, he'll be back next spike. If you divert him, thats him out of one of his spikes for a minute. Then you can reduce others, etc.

Terra Xin · May 31, 2006, 07:59 AM // 07:59

You have those big ecliptical circles when you use BO so 'everyone' can know you've used it. It's more obvious than mantras are.

Anyway, I read on GWiki that exhaustion occurs when the caster activates the spell. Does arcane languor apply in this case? If so, couldnt you link this with interrupts, giving you e-denial + interrupt?

Avarre · May 31, 2006, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Yes, you could. However it would bind you to one target if you were trying to combo it, which takes away from the effectiveness (other team sees langour and doesn't cast stuff, knowing you're watching).

Zoo X · May 31, 2006, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Themis

IMO:
- Blackout is a 2 seconds shutdown skill, 'cause i don't consider my own skillbar's shutdown a benefit. So, if it is not part of a specific build, it's kinda useless. This is not the case of Diversion.
- Blackout is a skill TOO MUCH VISIBLE in a battlefield. When you cast it, the only players who are not consious you did cast it, are the blind ones !

Diversion is insidious.

i belive you understimate blackout, i mean, actually render one caster useless for a few secs ( normally 7 secs if i play a dom mesmer) regardless mantras, stances, or anyother defensive skills, is always nice, if your team is about to cordinate a spike, and you got the chance to reach one of their monks, assuming most gvg guilds run a 2 monks backline, leaving 7 secs one of their monks out of the game, can really hurt them, and since your skill bar will be able to be used 2 secs before the guy u just blackout ,lets imagine a monk, for the time he is rdy to be back at game, i would have casted already one diversion at him/her.
as far as i belive blackout, is one of the best tactic skills at the game, and goes well also with diversion at the skill bar

LightningHell · May 31, 2006, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Themis

- If someone considers that BO can be used against warriors (?!), this person should take a look at SV instead.

Actually, BO removes all adrenaline. It's actually somewhat beneficial to use it against Warriors.